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Brazil’s environment minister, Marina Silva, has called on all nations to show the courage needed to confront the necessity of a worldwide fossil fuel phaseout, labeling the creation of a detailed plan as an “ethical” answer to the climate crisis.

The minister stressed, though, that involvement in this process would be voluntary and “self-determined” for willing nations.

The topic stands as one of the most debated matters at the COP30 in the host country, with countries divided over whether and in what way such a roadmap can be discussed. As the host, the nation has adopted a carefully neutral stance on what can be placed on the official schedule.

Silva expressed approval for the potential of a plan, without explicitly committing the country to it. She remarked: “When we have a situation that is very challenging, it is helpful that we have a guide. But the map does not force us to travel, or to climb.”

In an interview, she added: “The map is an response to our scientific knowledge [of the climate emergency]. It is an ethical answer.”

Dozens of countries gathered in the host city for the UN climate summit, which is starting its next phase, are seeking to determine how a global phaseout of fossil fuels could work. They hope to build on a landmark agreement reached two years ago at COP28 to “move away from non-renewable energy sources.”

That commitment had no a timetable or specifics on how it could be realized, and although it was passed unanimously, several countries have later tried to disavow the promise. Efforts last year to elaborate on its real-world implications were stymied by opposition from oil-dependent nations at COP29.

As a result, there was no reference of the transition away from carbon fuels in the outcome of COP29.

For these reasons, the host has been wary of demands by certain nations to place the phaseout on the schedule for the current summit. But Silva has worked hard in private to make sure the topic could be discussed at the conference outside the formal agenda.

The minister convinced Brazil’s president, and he gave mention three times to the need to “move away from dependence on traditional energy” at the summit of world leaders that came before COP30, and at the start of the event.

“The issue is something that we know at a certain time had to be raised, because it is the sole way to address the problem from the root,” Marina Silva said. “We recognise that it is not easy, and we cannot sell false hopes. Bringing up the subject is courageous, and I hope [to see] this bravery from all, from producers and using countries.”

Brazil had not started the push for a phaseout, the minister said, because that had been initiated at COP28. Rather, it was enabling the discussions to take place in line with what certain nations wished. “We know these subjects are delicate. We will provide the chance to talk about it,” the minister said.

There is not enough time at COP30 to create a detailed plan, a process the minister called could take a number of years because many countries confronted complex challenges around reliance on fossil fuels, or wanted to use the revenue from selling fossil fuels to finance their economic growth.

“Brazil raises the subject, because Brazil is both a producer and consumer,” the minister said. “But the nation is different, because Brazil, if it wants to, does not have to rely on fossil fuels. We have to recognise that there are some that rely on fossil fuels in their economies and don’t have simple alternatives, and some where fossil fuels are the basis of their economic structure.

“To be just is to be fair to all, but the fundamental, primordial justice is not being unfair to the planet, because it is our shared home.”

Should the proposal gains enough support, COP30 could set up a platform in which the work of creating a roadmap to the phaseout could begin.

This process would involve dialogue with every signatory nations to the UN framework convention on climate change and guidelines for how the process would unfold, Silva said. “Once we have criteria, a governance structure can be drawn up; after we have a strategy, and establish safeguards to be able to establish confidence in the process, I am confident that with these elements we can turn good ideas into steps that are clearer, and more tangible.”

It is uncertain that a proposal to begin developing a plan would win approval at COP30, although it may not need the official approval of the summit, which operates by consensus and can be disrupted by particular groups. Climate experts have suggested they think there could be support for such a proposal from about 60 countries, but there are thought to be at least 40 against. A total of 195 countries represented at the talks.

“In spite of being the root cause of climate change, fossil fuels are about the most contentious topic there is within the international climate talks, so to see a chunky group of countries publicly backing a route to achieving global phaseout is in itself pretty groundbreaking.”

“Put simply, there’s no route to a world where warming stays below 1.5 degrees in which countries cannot to talk about ending fossil fuel use.”

“We need this wording for actual in this conversation. It’s highly illogical that we talk about everything but that when fossil fuels are the actual challenge.”

Negotiations continued on Saturday on four unresolved issues that have not yet been included into the official schedule: trade, transparency, funding and how to address the gap between the carbon reduction countries have proposed and those needed to hold to the 1.5C temperature target.

A COP30 president promised a “note” that would cover these issues, after consultations – which have been going on since Monday – were inconclusive. He urged nations to embrace the “mutirão” spirit, meaning one of collaboration and positive discussion.

Work on additional key topics – including adaptation to the impacts of the climate crisis, the fair shift for those impacted by the move to a low-carbon economy and how to build governance capabilities in less developed nations – proceeded productively, the host said.

The host nation's chief negotiator stated the technical part of the COP proceedings was approaching the end, and the high-level stage – when government leaders who have the power to change their countries’ stances arrive – was starting.